A continuación se muestra una transcripción en bruto en inglés de la grabación de audio de
Al-Anon Michele M., Pete C., Dawn C., y Joe P. en 2022.(Haga clic para regresar)
Thank you, Natalie. And at this time, I'm going to have the panel introduce themselves. They're supposed to speak ballpark around 15 minutes. If they don't, we have nicknamed this meeting, we're going with the flow. So whatever they feel like. Just remember they're doing this, stretching themselves, as we heard earlier, this is how you get better to stretch.
So Natalie, excuse me, Michelle has graciously said she'd like to get the band aid pulled up first. Hi, Michelle. Hi, Michelle. Start my timer. Thank you to the committee for asking me to speak and helping me in my recovery. I grew up in alcoholism and for my family from the beginning, I remember teens being formed and we're a family divided.
And you can only guess whose team I was on, the alcoholic. And that happened to be my dad and my brother and my mom were on the opposite team. And looking back, really my self-worth and my unity with my dad was based off of bullying other people, bullying my brother and my mom. I was raised to be a great alanon. There was a bar down the street and I had to meet it called My Place and it was down the street from my dad's office. And he bought us a go-kart when you air for Christmas and the last time he lost his license, it's not suspended, it's gone.
I would drive him to the bar in our go-kart and we would just go. And I was trying to remember how old I was and I was probably around 10 or 11 and that's what I was doing. I'm great at pinball because that's where I would go. At the back of the bar there's a great pinball machine and that's just what we did. And my brother and my mom were just the others. And my dad's alcoholism eventually progressed as what alcoholism does.
And we were forced, at least I felt I was forced to live with my mom and my brother. And I was so upset at my dad and so resentful that he put me in this position where I had to go somewhere where I didn't want to go. And my mom was not an alcoholic, she was not an addict. She was a chameleon and she morphed into whatever surroundings she had. And unfortunately there was a lot of drug abuse around. And I felt that I had to be really stern and really hard.
And my mom was in an abusive relationship with a guy and my brother kind of just left the house and I stayed. And my way of coping was to do the opposite of what my mom did was coward. I always resented her for so many reasons but I saw her as being so weak. And I just didn't see her as having any worth for herself. And really after recovery I realized I was wanting someone to be something they were trying to be but didn't have the skills to be. And she tried with me the best she could but she had no chance with me.
And I would do things. I purposely wanted to scare this guy because I didn't want to get hit. And I didn't want to get hurt. And someone I did my best stuff, I wrote him down. And I shared that I would go get in his face and just call him all kinds of names. Trash, all the names that we call addicts and alcoholics when I'm in my self-righteous anger.
And I remember her saying you're lucky you didn't get hit. The thought never hurts me. So I did that kind of stuff. I remember my mom was homeless for a little bit and she had a couch. We didn't have a lot of money for furniture. I told her tell my dad to come pick me up and she was like no.
And I took a knife to the couch and I started cutting the couch. She was like tell my dad to come pick me up. She said no and I cut the couch. And I did a bunch of stuff to my mom. I was just so upset at her and just being around her was hard. When we would sit in her room and we watched the Lifetime movies, I would have her sit at the edge of the bed because I didn't want to be so close to her.
And that's the truth. I thought it was funny. I thought it was funny. She fell off. She fell asleep and she rolled over and she fell on the floor. And I looked at her and I was like oh no.
And she got up. She's like you pushed me. And I was so. . . I'm like how would you think I could push you?
Of course I didn't push you. But looking back I didn't see why she thought that I pushed her. And my dad eventually got sober. I remember riding him a little note on his desk and I said by then he was a slipper and we would go to AA meetings with him. I would go to AA meetings with him on kick day. And I wrote him a little note and I said I hope you make it and that's it.
And he got sober. But by then I was so resentful, I was so mad that losing his kids wasn't his bottom. The ego that I had was just and do have to be nice. It was so big. And so even in his sobriety I was too resentful and every time I would see him he would say I drank, I died. I drank, I died.
I ended up meeting someone when I was really young at a club. I was 15 years old drinking. I think the thing about alcoholism is that I felt adult at a very young age when I was not an adult. And so I was doing adult things. And my mom never said no to me. And even if she would have tried I wouldn't have listened because I didn't have any respect for her.
And so I ended up meeting someone. And after doing my fist step with my sponsor I learned that it was a very controlling relationship but he saved me from myself in a lot of ways. I ended up growing out of that relationship. I don't call him an alcoholic. He doesn't identify as that. I can tell you that he's in his 30s on the liver transplant list from drinking.
So I try and be compassionate towards that. So you know but in my family there's lots of yelling and I wanted to be the loudest one. And I remember being in the hallway with my mom and a lot of fights between everyone and me and there was one fight in particular. My brother and I were in the hallway and my mom came out and she was like stop, stop, stop. We were all screaming. And she grabbed her eye and we were like wait what's going on.
And she burst a blood vessel in her eye from screaming so loud. Our family you had to be the loudest. Even my dad's sober this time. And I don't want to be a part of his life too resentful, too upset. And so I'm living my life, doing adult things and whatever I wanted to do. I didn't want to be my mom.
And she never took care of herself ever. Financially, emotionally, spiritually, nothing. And I started resenting her so much more. The resentment just kept building. So I just didn't want to be her, anything. And I wish I could say more about my relationship with my brother.
But to be honest, I kind of just cut that out. I saw him as being useless, a burden. And I just don't really have too many stories about him. So my mom had health issues and I would go to the doctor with her. And I remember just screaming at her. And I appreciate the alcoholics when they talk about their last drunk.
And I remember my last time I yelled at my mom really yelled at her. And so fast forward, my dad relapses after 17 years of sobriety. He tells me he's no longer an alcoholic. That he's okay. He can drink like normal people. And we're all privy to how alcoholism is and jail.
And I won't tell his story, but it was hard to see. So I went into Alana. It's my first meeting. And I didn't want to look at anyone really because I didn't want to embarrass them. I felt like looking at them was embarrassing. And I ended up getting a sponsor and I started working in the steps.
And I don't even, she didn't even know I had a brother until I made him month. You know, and that's how much he was cut off completely. And she ended up asking me if I wanted to go to a women's conference. And the thing that saved me is I said yes to everything. You know, yes, yes, yes. And so I ended up saying yes.
And I remember getting off and I flew down there and by myself. And I remember coming down the escalator and there was this lady. And I tell you the sign that she has was dripping and glitter. I still feel like I'm removing some of the glitter. And I was like, okay, now's my chance. Like I can get out of here because I'm not into the sparkles.
I'm so glad I did it because they love me so hard. And after that conference, I knew it was me. Like why am I still against these people coming at me? I felt like they were just coming at me and they were just trying to get to know me. And I hate it. It was not great for me.
But I knew it was me and I'll have five more minutes. So in recovery, I started doing the unthinkable. And my sponsor told me I had to start sending my brother birthday cards. And I had to start telling my mom that I loved her over the phone. And I had to stop yelling at her. And Christmas came around and I had to hug her and to go and hug her.
And it was so uncomfortable. And I had to give my brother a presence at Christmas present. And when I tell you a hand to get to him, felt like giving him a dirty diaper. It felt so uncomfortable. I was like, hello, here you go. So I did all those things.
And I realized that I spent my life in alcoholism, not even knowing what it is. And I work in the medical field. So I felt like I knew what alcoholism was. And I had no idea. I know now that if an alcoholic tells me they don't want to drink, I believe them. You know, whether they drink or not.
I believe that it's cunning and baffling. And for me it is. It's confusing. So no one wanted to see me during COVID because I work in the medical field. And I did a lot of work. And I said, I called my mom.
And before I called her, I said, hey, I knew. I'm like, if she says no, I have to let go. And I called her and she said yes, and that visit, I didn't yell at her. I just, you know, I searched her food. And she was like, what did she put in this? She was so uncomfortable.
She's like, what did she do to this? And I'm like, it's for you. It's pizza, you know. Because I learned that in recovery. I learned to serve people. And I ended up doing a nice step with her on that visit.
And I just told her, you know, I learned in recovery that I don't have to grovel in front of anyone. And I just let her know like I was not a good daughter and I was in a lot of fear. But I'm grateful that she never gave up on me. She always answered the phone. Even if I yell about her and hung up on her, you know, she was always willing to see me. And she, you know, was waiting for her to start crying.
And my mom always used emotion as a manipulation. That's why it's hard for me with emotions. And so all she said is, you know, you're my daughter, of course. And I don't have kids. So I don't understand that level of love. And I'll wrap up quickly.
But that was the last time I saw her live. She died a few months later. And you know, I'll always be grateful to people in recovery because, you know, my father told me like, don't go alone. You know, bring someone. And you know, someone in recovery drove me six hours there and back. So I'm grateful today that I don't have to do things alone.
And my dad did end up finding recovery again. And you know, he still has that note in his wallet from years ago. So I'm grateful to know that, you know, I'm loved even though people don't know the right reactions to me. And you know, just because I don't know how to show love doesn't mean that there's not love there. And resentment bears love, you know, and so I'm grateful to know that. My brother, you know, I was in Ohio and he texted me, Hey, how are you?
And I'm like, what's wrong? He's like, he's like, no, I'm just seeing how you are, you know, and our relationship is rocky. Are you always so comfortable in front of him in his house? No, you know, but I want to go. You know, I want to be a part of and recover recovery taught me to be united and taught me about unity. So I'm grateful for that.
Yeah, I mean, my relationships are not all great, but without recovery, I will become judgmental, I will start yelling at people and, you know, my family will become scared of me. And I know that if I leave recovery, they'll probably have a reason to be scared of me. So, so yeah, I'll end with that. Thank you for letting me share. Thank you, Michelle. And I think for me, the purpose of this panel, besides letting go and letting God and going with the flow, is the many different ways we get to Elinah, the many different faces.
And what we look for is we look for the similarities, the characteristics we all sort of learn by coping that we're going to try and give away or whatever. So who would like to volunteer to be next? Okay. Pete is next. Thank you. Hi, I'm Pete.
Hi, Pete. I have a great member of Elinah. And I think I'm supposed to touch on the fact that I'm also an alcoholic with a call of double winner. And so I'm just going to start from the beginning. I was a pretty happy child until I was about three. And then I started getting restless, irritable, and discontent and uncomfortable with reality as it was.
And I just did not like, I remember not digging the way people treated each other. And I think I was a pretty sweet kid. And it took me a while, but I learned to not be nice and to defend myself. And I grew up in a pretty unstable situation. Not a lot of financial security or a lot of, I really had to do everything myself. And just a lot of yelling.
And so I was feeling lonely and fearful a lot. And so after years of dealing with that, I found some ways to take the focus off of how I was feeling. And I would notice that my brother was just sort of a big time depressive. And he just did not want to do anything fun. And I would poke at him and prod him to be happy. I want to just be happy.
And at least that took the focus off of me. I didn't have to deal with how I was feeling, which is just insecure and afraid and uncomfortable. So I actually have not made amends to this brother. I'm only just sort of looking at this because I would have described it as just bugging him. But I can figure out why he hated me. And that becomes a pattern in my life of people being kind of irritated with me because I was perfectly happy to get into your business.
And about 14, I found out we bought a couple of cases of Michelobe for 14 people. And I drank one of those and everybody else shared the other one. And I found that feeling of ease and comfort for the first time. I had tried alcohol here and there, but that was the right amount to get me where I needed to be to know that this was a solution to my problem of feeling horribly uncomfortable and only happy when I was off in the wilderness somewhere. I just pucked around by myself. That I was, people were just obstacles for me.
And I had friendships, but it's still, I don't feel like I ever had really intimacy with anybody because I was so wrapped up in myself and my fear and my uncomfortability. I sought alcohol as much as I could get a hold of it from then on. And by the time I was 19, I was a morning drinker. And I had worked in a restaurant my whole life, so I had early access to alcohol. And yeah, by 19, I drank every day all day. And I had always drank a couple of beers.
I always had a couple beers from the night before stashed for my morning drink. So I never particularly had a hangover, so it was just always a little buzzed. And that's sort of how I did it. I was always a little buzzed. I was not a super slobbering drunk, but you can bet I always had a couple of beers and be throughout the entire day. I just took the edge off and made people not such obstacles.
And I got more and more pissed off. Something I became pretty toxic by 19. And my relationships were always just like my family relationship. Just a lot of yelling and a lot of confusion and just horror. I look at that now and I'm just so grossed out by who I'm capable of being. I got to AA and it took me a couple of years of, I went to one meeting and I was like, oh yeah, I belong here and I ran to the liquor store crying.
And this was a liquor store where I had told, where I had been buying alcohol since I was 16. And it was like my 21st birthday. The lady who I had been buying alcohol for a long time, carded me for the first time ever. And I was legal to drink. And the way she looked at me, the disappointment of being manipulated for that long, because I kind of was a fast talker and I just never gave her a chance to even ask the question. I was just so friendly and so outgoing and just manipulative.
So that was the first time I had somebody really just look at me with just sort of like really fuck you, you know, pardon me. So that was her eye. Her eyes were saying that to me like she just felt betrayed. And that too I was. I was somebody who never really told the truth. I didn't even know why you would tell the truth.
I was just surviving. I was not living my life at all. I was just getting by. And I was there at Silverwood San Francisco and there was in the Marina district where there was just a little Alana club. And I went into what I thought was an AA meeting and it was an alan on me. And I just felt again, I felt so at home what people were talking about was like my life.
And I did not become a member of Alana at that point. But I sort of like kept it in my pocket for later on as I was just maybe navigating sobriety. And I didn't really have much comfortability in sobriety until I got miserable enough to ask somebody. I had a couple of sponsors who just were not sponsors. They did not take me through the steps. And I finally asked somebody who I didn't really relate to at all.
He just was so squeaky clean and he had six gray suits and lived in a track house. And this was so normal. And luckily he had worked the steps with another alcoholic. So I got to do steps with him and I got to share almost all my deepest darkest secrets with this guy. And my girlfriend at the time had read my fourth step. She snuck in there and read the whole thing.
And it was a pretty rich material. She was pretty mortified. And so I'd already been through somebody here in everything for the most part. That relationship did not last for some reason. But so be careful with your fourth step because this is my point. And I didn't tell him everything I wasn't ready to tell him.
He just seemed like he's being kind of grossed out already by everything I told him. So later I shared with another sponsor, everything. So there's about four people that know every single thing about me that I had walked around in shame about. When I got into the rooms I had a lot of shame. And I just didn't feel like I really had a right to be here. And today I still struggle with that a little bit but nothing like that.
I'm just going to move on to how I got into Alan on as. . . I think throughout my life I love alcoholics. They're just interesting people with good stories. And they're just, I don't know, kind of dynamic and kind of horrible.
And now I can relate to all of that. So I've had girlfriends that were alcoholics and I speak the language. I don't even. . . It's hard for me in the past.
It's been hard for me to even be attracted to somebody that's not kind of a train wreck because I speak that language. I grew up with a bunch of people like that. So I do it for a reason. And I do it because an alcoholic will always keep the focus off of me. I don't have to deal with me. Because an alcoholic is always going to bring a bunch of drama every day.
Something shitty is going to come up that I get to focus on. So I find out when I'm out of a relationship with an alcoholic I either obsess about that person for quite a long time. I can tell when I'm staying in the middle of the pack, doing daily readings, going to meetings regularly, talking to my sponsor a couple times a week, seeing them one day a week. When I'm doing that kind of stuff, I don't obsess about my most recent alcoholic. I don't think about them much at all. One thing that's happened to me over the last couple of weeks, I guess, like three weeks.
I've been noticing for the first time that everyone will care how badly you're driving. And it's been a big issue for me. Because I'm trying to control the world. That's part of my own, is that I think I can control the world and I try. And it's sort of like when I was working in restaurants I'd have dreams where I literally was the host, the cook, the waiter, the busboy, the dishwasher. And I tried.
I actually tried to do all that. And so part of my disease is I'm a people pleaser and I will try to do whatever incredibly unreasonable, selfish bullshit you're trying to get me to do. If I love you, I will do anything to manipulate you into not leaving me or something. It's just really gross. But it's just the way it is. It's who I grew up to be.
And it's who I'm letting go of more and more. And I'm realizing that I just get to be who I am. And I'm starting to notice that there are people that are not alcoholic, that are wonderful, good people, that I don't have to surround myself with people that are shitty to me. I have a lot more choices than I have before Alana. I really didn't have a choice. I did not know how to say no.
And I love that I am a member of Alana. And I love the people that I know from Alana. And I know that they understand where I'm coming from and that I'm a little crazy. And if I don't treat my crazy, it comes back. And it manifests in anger and manipulation. And I kind of wanted to touch on what I think it's that people pleasing thing is it's not a good thing.
And it's just manipulation for me to try to make everybody happy is me trying to control the world and to let the people in my life that I like to focus on. It's a lot easier for me to just let go of them and let them do what they're doing. And if they want help, I may help them, but I don't have to. And I have so much more freedom and I have some relationships today that are so much better because I come to Alana and Alana and relationships that were awful and not salvageable are really great today. And I have seen so many people where their relationships, they're impossible to patch up relationships, get patched up and where people either get back together or at least have friendships for life, respectful friendships, like that thing where I didn't respect my parents at all. And today I realized that my parents and all the people that I think should be different and do different, the people that wronged me, I am not a victim today.
That's a really wonderful gift of this program. So promises not a victim of anybody but my own unwillingness to do it suggested here. And I know if I do what's suggested here, I get happy, regularly happy. So I keep coming back because of this general happiness. And when I get bummed out, it lasts for like three hours, not three months. So I get joy in this program, I get really rich, meaningful relationships.
There's a lot of people in this world that I love and I really care about other people. So that's new for me. So thanks for listening and I'm glad you're all here today. Thank you Pete. And now we have a battle between Joe and Don. So, all right, here comes Don.
Thank you. My name is Don. I know. I'm a grateful Al Anon. I want to thank the committee for asking me to be on this panel. I want to open my talk with something that happened to me a couple of months ago.
I was watching my granddaughter. She's seven years old. And I was reading my daily readers. Oh, for today. What? All of them.
And they have these cute little covers on them that I got at some conferences. So they're all pretty and everything. And she was mesmerized with the covers. And she was asking about them and she wanted to read them. And I was shocked that the page I was reading, she's reading it. I didn't know you read it, seven, but whatever.
I don't think I did. But anyway, I had an Alatine book, the red one. I'm not sure what that's called. But I had the book and I got, oh, I'm going to let her look at that one. And I was hesitant to do it because I didn't know where it was going to go. So I had that fear there that I don't know, I just was scared.
But anyway, she asked me three times that she wanted the book. So I gave it to her. And she started reading one of the, she just opened it up and started reading one of the pages. And it was, I don't remember exactly what it was about, but it was about alcoholism and little kids and all that. And she started talking about what was going on in her house. Of which I knew, but I hadn't heard it from her perspective that there's a lot.
My dad comes home drunk and he fights and he gets mad. And I don't like it. Well, it was all I could do to not cry. And then she kept saying she wanted the book. She wanted to take the book home. And I was like, oh my God.
Now I need to say, I know my son's got a drinking problem. And I'm like, oh my, I played the whole thing out. I guess it wasn't being Al Anand right then because I, you know, oh, she can take the book home. The mother and the father are going to find it and they're going to go off and they're going to call me and go off and blah, blah, blah. So anyway, all that went on my head. And finally I said, something told me, just give it the book.
So I gave her the book. And she took the book home and that was two months ago. I haven't heard a word. So I don't know what happened. I don't know. But she wanted the book and she wanted to read it.
Wow. I just, I'm so sad because that's the third generation of the alcoholism in my family. I have kind of traced it back. My parents, grandparents on both sides, great grandparents from stories that I have heard. And so my parents are adult children of alcoholic, whatever you call it. Yes.
And my, and my grandparents were. And I am too, the oldest of four children. Anyway, I need to say I've been in Al Anon for almost five years, next month it'll be five years. And I have learned so much in this program. First of all, I have a life today. I did not have one before.
I have five kids. They were all pissed off at me. My husband, we were not doing good. And it was probably, it was a lot of my fault. I can't blame it on them. I was then, but I know today it was me and my attitude and my criticisms and my controlling, trying to control everything.
And I have learned in Al Anon that I had to let go of everything. And I have to, I can't do it just once. I have to do it continually on a daily basis. Some days good, some days not so good. And so I have also learned to have consistency in behaving. I did this by getting the sponsor, by going to a ton of meetings.
When I first came into Al Anon, I did 90 meetings in 90 days. And I know I've done a lot of therapy and all of that. And I know it helped me, but these meetings helped more than all that therapy. I have been part of service from the moment I walked into Al Anon. And my sponsor got me involved in service. And one of the first things I learned was you don't see no to anything.
That is why I'm up here, by the way. I wouldn't be here. Anyway I've learned so much from my sponsor. And I lose my train of thought. So I'm going to talk about my daughter and my relationship with my daughter. I had a terrible, horrible relationship with my mother.
She was the alcoholic. And we did not get along at all. In fact, I heard someone talking about disrespecting. I disrespected my parents so bad. I feel really bad about that. And of course I've been making a living of men's for that.
But when I found out I had three boys and then I found out I was having a girl, I freaked out. It's like, oh god, this is coming back by me. Again, now I tried to baby her and do all this stuff, which was wrong. But I mean, I did what I thought was right. Anyway when she went away to college and stuff, we haven't been on good speaking terms. And she was disrespecting me the way I was disrespecting my mom.
So after going to Alonaut and practicing the principles and all areas of my life, things started turning around for all my relationships with all my kids and my husband, but especially my daughter. And my daughter has finally, she, we are talking very nicely to each other. We are spending a couple of weeks ago, we went to Vegas and had like a girls weekend and went sauce and I had playing. I got to spend some time with her and she was getting, she was opening up to me. And as there is alcoholism all over my family, drinking, whatever you want to call it, she started talking about her drinking. And she wants to give some help.
And she told me. So what I did was this first, keep your mouth shut, listen. And she's moving home at the end of the month. And I'm saying a lot of prayers to my higher power. He's in charge, I'm not. But these are prayers, I feel right now, prayers are being answered to have a relationship with my daughter.
Only good things are going to happen. That's where I met with her. Anyway, you're doing great. You're doing great. See I'm not a moderator, I am a chair. Okay, the other person I wanted to talk about, well it's about me reacting to these people.
I'm mentioning these people but it's not about these people, it's about the way I acted, keeping my mouth shut. Being respectful, giving them the dignity to do whatever they're going to do. They all have their own higher power. They all have a path. And I have a path today too. And I have a purpose and I've learned to be self-respectful too.
And I never, I didn't grow up with those tools. And that's one thing I told my daughter, oh you need to learn some tools. I did say that to her. Because that's what I did. She obviously, I'm thinking, picked up something from me. She wants something I have.
Today I feel like I have something to give to them. I'm sorry I had to wait until they were in their 30s but hey, better late than never. But my husband on another note, we have had a tumultuous relationship and a lot of it has been me. It hasn't been his drinking or using. It's been my craziness. It's been my insanity.
My trying to control things. And I learned to stop doing that. And just recently, I've learned to be more respectful of him and give him dignity to make his own choices and stuff. I'm not his parent. I'm his wife. I'm his spouse.
And he's not doing exactly what I said but what I want. But that's not my job. I accept my husband today exactly where he is. I love him right where he is. And today because of Al Anon, we have the best relationship we've ever had. In December, we will have been married 40 years.
He would take a year. I mean, you know, I left a couple times and did that crap too. So I, but yeah, we did it. I tried to divorce him. It never worked. And so yes, it's been 40 years.
But I invited him to come here today. He's not drinking. But yeah, and that's okay. He's just, he's doing his own thing. And I love him right where he is. And I go to a lot of Al Anon meetings.
So I don't know how long I have, but I am very grateful for Al Anon. And I need to say this just as a little note. Al Anon has been very good to me. But I am also a double winner also. And I have 38 years in sobriety. And I'm very, very grateful for that.
I will say one last thing. I thought if I quit drinking, we get the alcohol, you know, if someone's trying to be sober or not drink, then the kids are all going to be raised and they're going to be fine. And I got, I control them and they're not going to drink or do it. No, that's a lie. It didn't work. So this is a better plan, Al Anon.
Thank you. Thank you, John. Thank you. Thank you, John. Thank you. Thank you, Gary.
And I'm stunned. And now. . . Is that. .
. Are we out of time? No, we've saved. . . No, we've saved.
. . We've saved. . . Well, I can't say we've saved the best for last.
But here he is, Joe. Yes, he is. I don't know if I could do this. I'm Joe. I'm super grateful for Al Anon. Super grateful for Al Anon.
Before I really realized what I was going to be doing here, I'm so grateful that when anyone asked me to do anything for AA or Al Anon, I always say yes, because it's given me so much. And I would just like to do the best I can to return what's been given to me so freely. The program has changed my life. I was actually probably given me my life to be honest with you. I'm going to try and not get emotional here. My life's been touched by addiction more than I would like to say.
My brother was an addict. He lost his life at 56. His wife died five years later. She was an alcoholic addict. My cousin was found dead in her car full of wine bottles. But none of those are what brought me here.
My wife's disease is what got me to come into these rooms. I grew up a happy kid. I don't remember any addiction in our family. I'm one of four children. I had two sisters and a brother. I was the youngest.
My brother was four years older than me. And I was a we were always rolling in the dirt. Ride motorcycles, bicycles, just doing anything for adrenaline. And my brother just always seemed to take things a little bit too far. He never knew moderation. So at any rate, I tried to kind of throttle back that a little bit.
But what brought me here was my marriage with my wife. When we got married, she didn't drink at all. Neither one of us drank. We were very active. We enjoyed hiking and skiing and mountain biking. And just nature.
And we traveled. And somewhere in our marriage, she started drinking wine with dinner. Started wine tasting. Pretty soon she started drinking a glass or two every day after work. And as we know, the disease progressive. And pretty soon it was a couple bottles after work.
Got to the point where there was no communication. She would walk through the door soon. She got home from work, kick the dog, say boo to me, and go find a bottle. And that went on for a long time. And we would talk about it periodically when I could get to the door. And maybe when I could try to find the right moment.
And she would agree that it had gotten a little bit too far. And she would quit. And that would generally last a day or two, maybe three. And then it would always start again. And this went on for many years. In the process without realizing it, I began to slowly isolate from people.
From the things that I enjoyed in life. As I said, I was very active outdoors, enjoyed nature. And God's gifts. So again, it progressed and we talked about it. And finally it got to the point where I realized how far I had sank. There was no joy in my life anymore.
So we had the discussion again. And I just said that we've got to do something about that. We're losing what we've had. And I can't take it much longer. And once again it lasted three or four days. And the Fourth of July rolled around.
And we were going to have dinner with some of our neighbors who were her drinking partners. One of many of course. And she left early to go up there. And I was just, oh no. And I had said to myself, if I go up there and she's drinking, I'm going to have to do what I said I would do. And I got up there and she was drinking.
And there was a lot of people around and I just turned around and walked out and went home. And she eventually wandered down there and just said what's going on. And I just told her that she could continue to live her life. However she needed to do it. But I could not carry on like this any further because I felt myself had lost who I was, what I was doing. And I just couldn't do it anymore.
So at that point she said she didn't want to lose me. And she was going to make a serious effort at stop drinking. And of course in my mind I thought, you know, if she stopped drinking everything was going to be great again. My life was going to be fixed and everything was going to be like it used to be. Well she did stop drinking. She didn't go to AA and my life wasn't great.
Her life wasn't great. And I didn't know why. She didn't know why. We still weren't talking and I don't think either one of us knew who we were. It was a strange time and this went on for a month or two. And kind of a funny thing how God works.
We had friends who were in AA. And one of them came over to the house one night and I was gone. I helped a friend with the race car. As I said I grew up kind of doing silly stuff like that. And she talked to him. And he got her to go to a meeting and she started in her program.
And once again I thought, okay my problems are solved. Life's going to be great. She's going to figure it out. And this is going to be good. And during this time I didn't mention that I had become so lonely. She could be in the house but it was like there was another human in there.
There was a shell of a person but that person wasn't really there. And like I said through the isolation I had become just lonely and sad, depressed. So any rate when she started going to meetings I said okay great, you know this is going to help. And little did I realize when she was going to meetings she wasn't at home. So there I was sitting on my pity pot by myself. That was what working so good.
Because I still hadn't figured out who I was or where I was going. I was the same lost person. We were both lost. So during this process I guess I should go backwards a little bit. One time when she was still drinking I walked into an alanon meeting. I can't remember what got me there while I was desperate.
And I walked in and I looked at the people there and I said oh shit. One of these people looked like me. None of them dressed like me. They're talking about themselves and I don't have a problem. They do. So that was my one alanon meeting.
So I remember that. And at any rate so the AA continued going forward again. She got a sponsor. And now she was going to meetings like every night. This gal that I didn't know was taking her to Santa Cruz Watsonville Hollister. She was meeting all kinds of people.
And in my mind she was having a great time. I was pissed. In my mind she was having a great time while she was drinking. And she was having a great time meeting all these new people partying in AA. And I was like well this sucks. I was going to get her back and we were going to go back to what we were.
So at any rate I'm sitting there not happy. Sad. Mad. resentful. Everything else in the world. So I'm desperate at this point.
So I'll go back to that same alanon meeting. I walk in. There's the same people in there. And I'm like this sucks. I'm doomed. But I'm desperate.
So I'm going to stay this time. You know I'm going to sit and I'm going to give this a try because I got nowhere else to go. I tried therapy and all this other stuff. And it helped but it just didn't really work all the way. So I kept going back to that meeting. And I don't really know what they said but they were super nice.
They weren't like me but they were super nice and I always felt a little bit better after I left. So in that meeting they suggested that you try six different meetings. Well I had recently retired so I had lots of time on my hands. So I got on the schedule and I saw there was noon meetings. So I found a noon meeting in Monterey and met somebody who has been insanely instrumental in drawing me into these rooms and keeping me here and I thank her beyond anything. So I continued to go to meetings and I continued to feel better every time.
When I left and again I still didn't really know why. But I slowly got literature and continued. I read and I listened to people's shares and a funny thing happened was these people that didn't look like me or do the same things I did, they said the same things how I felt. I mean word for word when you read that help and hope, that was me. I mean when I heard that I was like oh my gosh I've landed because I mean I was word for word everything in there. So anyway when I started to learn about awareness of my feelings that was one of the first things that kind of started getting me out of my whole was the awareness of what my feelings were because I thought I had worked through these feelings of loss and all this.
But I really hadn't. In hearing other people talk and reading I started to really more understand and the steps I learned about surrendering which at first being a tough guy we don't like to ask for help and surrendering his weakness. But surrender has been one of the most useful, strongest things I've ever done is surrendering to try to change somebody else and accepting them for who they are. And then detachment was a huge huge thing that we talked about early on and I could not understand that for the life of me. I was either obsession or amputation. The thought of there was no middle ground for me.
I just did not understand that in any way shape or form. I mean you're either with somebody or you're not. And the thought of it being a disease didn't really compute because I mean I grew up in the 80s, I partied like a crazy man and I was able just to quit. I was blessed with the ability to just stop. And I did not understand that it was a disease and that was not an option for them. So the thought of detaching from the disease and not the person just wasn't logical to me because I guess this is something else.
I was a mechanic by trade and this caused some friction early in recovery because when someone came to me with a problem of course they want it fixed. That's what I do is I fix things. Well as we know sometimes people, as I know now I should say, sometimes people just want to be heard. And that's one of the other gifts that I learned here is to just try to listen. And I learned that in meetings. To keep my lips shut sometimes and just acknowledge the fact that somebody is struggling or having a hard time and that's been another huge, huge gift that I've learned in this program.
I guess let me try and go back forward. So anyway I was started to catch on to this and I had tremendous guilt. I thought if somebody else in my life was struggling, sad, mad, upset, then I had to be that way also. I felt guilty if I was happy or joyous, kind of like we heard in meetings when people laughed. And that was me. I was this caretaker and I just couldn't understand the fact that it was okay to still be okay if somebody else that I loved wasn't.
But I heard it in meetings that I needed to put the oxygen mask on myself before I could help anybody else. And that was a huge analogy for me to cling to. Really important. And I guess I'll back up again was the minimization of how I got deep in it was, you know, I think we all tend to kind of deny what we know when we're seeing the progression of this. And that was something else that gave me awareness in the program. And after this came acceptance and forgiveness for myself first for sure.
You know, accepting the fact that it would be okay if I was okay if they weren't. And that was something that I learned also in here was that I had to be okay whether somebody else wasn't going to be or not. Because at the end of the day I had to put my own head on my pillow and be okay with myself. And that is another huge, huge gift that, you know, I learned in here because again, I will to this day still obsess on somebody else. So I keep going to meetings. I keep reading the literature because I will go backwards and I know that.
Yeah. So any rate progressing on I was in the program for six or eight months and I don't know how long I have a clock. So my okay. So at any rate I'd been in the program for six or eight months and I kind of talked to my coach about a sponsor. I was doing, you know, I was doing way better and I, you know, I was happy with my progression. And I asked this person about getting a sponsor and she said, well, it's a good idea.
You know, just if, you know, shit hits the fan, somebody kind of knows your story and you don't have to start from scratch. And you can. So that's been an interesting journey. Because again, I don't know men in general. I don't think we asked for help very well. Yeah.
We're kind of proud that way. So at any rate she suggested an individual because there wasn't a lot of men in the program and I met with him and talked to him. And I was comfortable. But you know, like we heard in here, we don't always look the same. I live in Prunedale. I'm kind of a hillbilly.
I grew up in the dirt with a mechanic and my sponsor is a business person, lives on the coast, drives a luxury car. I drive a clunker. But any rate, so I ask him eventually to be my sponsor because he wasn't going to ask me. And that was a difficult thing to do. So that's been a really amazing relationship. You know, it has its progressed.
It's coming from kind of two different lifestyles, but when we talk about Alonon, the similarities are just amazing. And it's just been a really, really cool journey for me, the discussions that we have and just the support and everything. And one more thing I have to add before I close out here was during all this, the first year or two, I mean, I was still struggling with this relationship because there would be good days, there would be bad days, I'd come in crying. And all I got from people was encouragement, help, support to hang in there for at least a year or two, because you know, we were both figuring out who we were and it's not going to get fixed overnight because it didn't happen overnight. And without that encouragement, there's no way I would be married. I don't know if I would have stayed in the program, but I am just so grateful for everybody in this program.
I cannot say. And with that, I'm going to say, you know, when I first talked about going to meetings and leaving, feeling better than when I had gone in, you know, the cool thing is, is I still get that, but now I know why. And just so blessed and just thank everybody so much for everything they've done for me. Thank you. And thank you for inviting me. Okay, well, those are four panelists and they are at the different faces, different views of what brought them in.
I hope you heard some similarities. And now we have about ten minutes, five minutes for- I think you can share a little bit about me. Well, it's not that good. So- Okay. I will share briefly. And then are we going to do Q and A?
You don't come that time. For it. Yeah, just even three questions. Okay, three questions. There's got to be- you don't want to hear about me. So three questions that you've got.
Chris, do you have a question? And you can direct it to anyone or just generally to the panel. I know we're keeping the question in the mic. I will. Okay, well, his statement, this is a game changer because the point he's heard from here, so he should be in both programs besides just being in A. So Susan A has the question.
I have two questions. She has two questions. I'm not going to be there. We go. All right. For our dual members, I would love to hear if they feel like talking about it, about how it's been for them navigating both programs and how they integrate that in their lives.
And from all the panelists, I would love to hear if they want to share how their communication has changed with the people in their lives that were challenging before. Okay, I'll try and paraphrase. For the dual members that mean people in both programs, she'd like to know how they navigate the different programs. And then she'd like to know from all the panel members or whoever wants to respond if your communication or how your communication with your loved ones has changed. So. Hi, Michelle.
Hi, Michelle. Hi, Michelle. Hi, Michelle. Hi, Michelle. Hi, Michelle. Hi, Michelle.
Hi, Michelle. Hi, Michelle. Hi, Michelle. Do you want to come up with me? Michelle. Hi.
Hi. I can say specifically for my brother, there are topics that are outside issues that I do not talk about with him. And I try and keep it light. And what I'm grateful for is that I have a niece and nephew. And I love them so much and what's great is they don't have the resentment that me and my brother have. So it's a buffer.
I think my mom used to be the buffer, but I love my niece and nephews. So he started sending me pictures of that and I'll like them. But it starts off small for him to text me. You know, I got sick and he was texting me. How are you feeling? That's big.
I don't minimize that. So I don't expect our relationship to be great. And when I go and visit my family, I write an intentions list with one of my intentions for going. And if anything falls out of that boundary, I just kind of refer back to that. But I think it's important to say I don't always feel comfortable, you know, going. All right, now we go to the first question and Peter Don.
I guess Pete's going to answer. Go to click it. I am Pete and I love Zoom and it's made it so it's really easy to get to a meeting. I have no excuse to miss them. So I go to a meeting for A every day and I go to about three alanies a week. And I have a sponsor in AA and I had a sponsor in alanies and I'm just about to get a different one just because it was not a match.
But my life gets so much better when I have a sponsor, when I'm doing 10 steps in telling on myself, when I get pissed off at somebody or when I do something inappropriate, which I will do, the more I'm telling on myself, the less I'm doing it for somebody. It just starts to fall away. The bad behavior starts to fall away. I think I'm just getting bearish. I don't know. It feels more like it just falls away.
Like the drink falls away. The manipulative and controlling behavior, the policing, the world kind of behavior, it just stops happening. But only when I'm really sharing my bad behavior with another person in either program. So that's how I do those things. We've got time for one more for burning desire question. Real quick question.
Nobody had, Harry, you don't have a burning desire question. This is my husband. He is always talking. So. As an alcoholic, I'm an alcoholic, and I'm also an animal program. And I've got to find the girlfriend because I'm really easy for me to get on one side of the other.
That's either controlling or fearful or otherwise just self-affording. And the question I have first, everybody, is how do you say you find the center? Okay. So, Harry isn't both programs. Then in one program, he is selfish, self-centered, blah, blah, blah. And then the other one, he is full of fear, anxiety, and control.
There we go. So how do we find the middle ground or the fulcrum? My answer would be a sponsor and other people in the program because that's, I have one of my sponsors, has what she calls a board of directors, which are all people from Alonaut, and she will call them up and get different views, which I think is wonderful. But Don, you want to take that one? And then we'll close her up. And last time, that's both to close her up.
So there we go. I did have an announcement before we close. Okay. You speak. My name is Don. Hi, Don.
Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I need to find the middle ground. I need to find the middle ground.
I want to say the biggest thing with Alonaut has been relationships, dealing with relationships. Yes, I did that in AA2, but it was like a different, it was something different. So even though I go to AA, I really find more balance by going to Alonaut meetings. Yes, working with my sponsor, being of service, which I'm doing. I do parts of that in the other program, but it's with my family and even every part of my life, learning how to behave. I don't know if that answer did.
Thank you.